Allegro Club International

[alan wilson]

Hi all
Just fitted one of these:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110256771298&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=001 and it works a treat ! Easy to fit, it`s improved the starting tremendously, the car now fires first turn of the key. It will fit any Allegro with the Lucas/Ducellier 45D4 distributor which covers nearly all "A" series models. It can be adapted to fit the later 59D4 dizzy as fitted to my Allegro ( A Plus 998cc), it`s a simple mod and doesn`t stop the points being re-fitted if need be. I`ve just bought another as a spare, I`ve asked the seller if he can get more as he`s only showing 2 more in stock
Cheers
Alan

[alan wilson]

Quick update on this, no problem with supply, Simon has assured me they are readily available

[Mike Dean]

Hey Alan, you pipped me to the post!
I fitted an identical unit last week - however I've currently got fuel problems (tank or pump) which I was going to resolve before posting details.
I bought mine from MM-4x4 rather than ebay:- much cheaper at £6.75 +p&p + VAT (-5% if bought on-line). Almost as cheap as carrying a spare condensor and points!

Click here for details

I had a couple of problems when fitting it:
1. The fixed part of the contact breaker plate in distributor (I think it's a Lucas 45D) had a pin sticking up to stop the top swiveling plate from retarding too much. This had to be cut so it would still stop the top plate but did not protrude above it. About 5 minutes with a needle file is all it took to cut the top off.
2. When removing the points and condensor, I also removed the small wire between the top plate and the one of the points where the bottom plate is screwed to the body of the distributor. This must be left in place.

And now the confession: I bought two, the second was going to be used by a friend or would become a spare to carry with me. My friend decided not to use it as it would require a bit of fudging to fit it to his 25D distributor. In the process of discovering point 2 above I tried reversing the connection from the unit to the coil. The result was a meltdown - I had to use the spare and replace some of the wiring. So if you're going to fit one, MAKE SURE YOU'VE CONNECTED IT THE RIGHT WAY AROUND!

Mike.

[alan wilson]

WOW - looks like I was lucky, I`ve removed the small wire and mine works fine. Mind you, I dd change the baseplate as my distributor is a 59D4 - same as yours by the sound of it. The pin in qusetion is there to move the positive side of the points up and down using the advance / retard to reduce pitting. I presume your car is a Series 3 if it has the 59D4 type dizzy. I`m gutted I didn`t get your post before I bought the spare unit, I`ve paid well over he odds by the look of it!
Thanks for letting us all know of MM 4x4 and also the warnings about fitting
Cheers
Alan

[Mike Dean]

Seems like you were lucky Alan. I believe the wire is there to provide a better earth connection to the engine. Without it the circuit is being made between through the bearing in the base plate assembly. It might be wise to refit it now rather than risk problems in the future.

My distributor is definitely a 45D4 - I've just checked it and it is marked as "41823 A 45D4" which matches what the workshop manual says it should be.

Looking at the workshop manual diagrams of the Ducellier distributor I'm not sure that this unit would be as straightforward to fit. The base plate assembly appears to incorporate the pivot pin for the points and the grommet and exit hole for the LT wire(s) are quite different.

Mike.

[alan wilson]

You`re right, Mike, must be that my dizzy is getting a decent earth through the bobweight springs - the earth wire is definitely going back in. I thought that my dizzy had the pin sticking uo for the later points and that related to the 59D4, seems like some 45D4s had the later points fitted. I had a 45D4 in my spares car so I just nicked the baseplate of that one and the module went straight in, however the engine is going into my car after this season so I`ll be needing to do the mod to the baseplate to rebuild the 45D4. BTW, John Marston-Jones has electronic ignition fitted to his poked-up Series one using a very similar module but the original rotor arm with a seperate reluctor ring fitted underneath - better idea as the standard rotor arm is refitted, mind you it cost £100 when he restored the car 10 years ago !!

[Mike Dean]

I know the type - my friend got one for his Sunbeam for about £65. I forget the name but they're made in the US. Will find out more if anyone is interested.
Mike.

Just remembered - the ignition is Pertronix.

20/06/2008 - Added:
Currently on sale on ebay Here

[Mike Dean]

WARNING

I've just reverted to points after quite a drawn out period trying to resolve a problem. It's really quite a saga, but hopefully a good learning experience. I'll try and document it in another posting soon.

Mike.

[Mike Dean]

A bit more information for those interested in trying this unit:-

I believe that the 45D4 Lucas distributor fitted pre-1980 differs from that from 1980 onward in that the contacts base plate has a raised stud to locate the hollow spindle of the contacts pivot (whereas there is a hole in the plate at that place on the later distributors). I believe this stud may foul the mounting of the electronic ignition. Though it may be possible to remove it, it may render the distributor incapable of having the original contacts refitted.

Mike.

[Mike Dean]

Details of the problem I had arising from fitting one of these units are here:
A learning experience.

I've yet to refer back to the supplier to give them an opportunity to defend the product.

Mike.

[alan wilson]

Hi Mike
Just a postscript on the subject - my Series 3 1.0 just went to Birmingham and back with the unit fitted and no problems, a distance of 260 miles - the engine is now revving faster than with points giving me an extra 5-10 MPH at the top end. Trust me it was HOT on the M6 so if I was going to have a problem this weekend would have been the time for it! I did take my AA card and a spare module just in case though!javascript:emoticon('')
Wink I think there must be some underlying problem for the trouble you had with this conversion which the points are to an extent tolerating but the hall effect system is not able to cope with. Have you checked for possible overcharging? Maybe the unit is operating over the normal tolerances which would explan the symptoms you`re describing
Cheers
Alan

[brian]

Hi all;

As the southeast people know, I've recently bought the SimonBBC electronic ignition thing http://www.simonbbc.com/automotiveshop/
I have the same thing on my Volvo, and beetle previously and they've done very well.

As luck would have it, my points or condenser packed up on my way to work yesterday so I had to be recovered home- typical. Of course I didn't have the unit with me so that I could just fit it there and then.

I've just put the unit into my Allegro 3 with the 45D distributor.
Very easy installation- but I had to break off the point locating pin; hope I don't have to go back to points!!

Anyway, the installation was very easy and tidy otherwise. The only issue is that it locates at a different spot on the distributor than before, so it throws the timing off. It was wayyyy too advanced.

I had to reset my timing by ear:- retard it by about 15-20 degrees it seems like. Runs very nicely now; although I'll still have to play with the timing for a while til I get it where I like it.

Not bad for £20!

They also sell 25D and 45D distributors with electronics as well for about £50-60. This would be a good conversion to get rid of the ducellier!

There is a cheaper one available BUT its blue instead of red. I've talked to people in the VW scene who have had tons of trouble with the blue units. Don't buy a 'blue' one. The red one is the modified version.

Cheers,
Brian