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Richard Howe
Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1684
Location: Streatham, South London
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 Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:29 am Post subject: Non-member requires engine identification help |
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| Quote: | Hi from America.
I've bought a Mini 850 from New Zealand that has come with a 1275cc engine in it. I've been slowly gathering information to determine what it is out of, as it came with no engine number. Initially, I was thinking it was out of a Mini 1275GT, but more and more it seems not to be. Various parts that I've ordered for the 1275GT are not correct. But today, someone suggested that it may be an Allegro motor. I happen to look up a photo of the original gearshift knob (which matches no Mini knobs) and it is EXACTLY what is on my car. So, what I need is a bit more information to lock it down as an Allegro motor (if it is). Does the Club have any notations as to the cylinder head and cylinder block casting numbers? This engine has had most of the ancillary parts replaced with the original 850 engine parts (alternator to dynamo, distributor, etc) so I can't really go with those as identifiers. The carburetter tag is missing.
Secondly, if it is an Allegro engine, how is the parts availability for these?
Thank you,
Paul Barnes ( fiat500f@aol.com )
Benaslem, PA |
I've not yet replied, but I didn't think the 1275GT engine was so different to any other A series engines of the time, and the fact all the 850's ancillaries fitted onto the 1275 block supports that IMO. Unless there's some special differences in the blocks built by New Zealand Motors, or the engine is an A+ that was first shipped from the UK to NZ before being fitted, I'm really not sure what other advice we can offer. Anyone?
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giz
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 377
Location: Bromsgrove
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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I think coming to the conclusion that an engine comes from a particular vehicle because of a gear knob is a bit bonkers tbh, i have a superman badge on my steering wheel but doubt D.C comics fitted it 
as far as i know there is no difference between the block of a 1275gt and that of any other 1275 a series engine. with the exception of anything that came out of experimental or competitions departments. |
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Richard Howe
Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1684
Location: Streatham, South London
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Giz, I figure if any of us would know Minis it's you 
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giz
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 377
Location: Bromsgrove
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:50 am Post subject: |
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i wonder if the thermostat housing is the allegro type? he doesn't mention the starter motor, if it's got the 850 starter it will be an A an not an A+
any way, this is what wiki says about the australian 1275gt.
| Quote: | | For the Australian market, all Minis including the Van gained the Clubman front in 1971 although the car was still basically a Mk I behind the A-Pillar.[48] The Australian van thus became the only Clubman Van produced anywhere in the world.[48] From mid 1971 to the end of 1972, a Clubman GT version of the sedan was produced.[49] This was essentially a Cooper S in Clubman body, equipped with the same 7.5-inch (190 mm) disc brakes, twin fuel tanks, and twin-carburettor Cooper S 1,275 cc engine. Australian Clubman sedans were marketed under the Morris Mini Clubman name when introduced in August 1971,[50] and as the Leyland Mini, without the Clubman name, from February 1973.[51] To end Mini production in Australia, a limited edition runout model was produced − the 1275LS. Originally created as a top end model, when the decision was made to end production, it became the runout model. Fitted with a pollution control 1,275 cc engine sourced from Europe, the LS had a single 1.5-inch (38 mm) carburettor and 8.4-inch (210 mm) disc brakes. Production of this model commenced in July 1978 and concluded in October 1978 with an approximate total of 810 vehicles produced. |
so if the engine was taken from a vehicle made 1978 it would be a pollution control 1275 cc engine. i have no idea what they look like or have any details about them. |
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Richard Howe
Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1684
Location: Streatham, South London
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Australian & New Zealand had different production sites though, so would that still hold true?
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giz
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Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 377
Location: Bromsgrove
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| no idea, i can't find any info on newzeland built mini's, i presume they used the same engines, but it would be just a guess |
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giz
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Laurence
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 1408
Location: Plymouth
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Some later series 3 Allegros had a forerunner to the Metro A+ engine, it was almost an A+ but not quite.
Similarly the New Zealand Mini had a forerunner to the A+ engine.
I doubt New Zealand produced its own engine/block as BL supplied a current model engine across the board so whatever was coming out of the factory at the time, that's what you got.
So yes, it could be an Allegro 1300 or Mini 1300 forerunner to the A+ engine.
The A+engine block has the strenghthening ribs apparrent, it has a thicker flange along the base of the block where it joins the gearbox & it has a single bolt-hole to hold the distributor forked clamp rather than the A series pair of bolt-holes which the distributor flange attached to.
But the A+ forerunner had the pre-verto clutch.
Tell matey to have a look here www.absolutemini.com/index.php?classic_mini=23 |
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Paul-V
Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 1463
Location: The National Forest
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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Three more 1275 variants:
1) Mini Cooper S: this was the only 1275 block to have removable covers at the back to allow access to the cam followers. It also had two extra cylinder head retaining points: a bolt next to the thermostat housing and a stud next to the heater tap.
2) Austin/Morris/Wolseley/MG/Riley/Vanden Plas 1100 with optional 1275cc engine. 1967 build only. This used the Cooper S block mentioned above, without the extra head retainers and just a single SU HS4 carburettor.
3) MG/Riley 1300MkII, Austin/Morris 1300GT. Standard block that we are all familiar with, but with the extra head retainers.
For the record, the Mini 1275GT used a completely standard Austin 1300 or Allegro engine, but with the close ratio gearbox from the Cooper S and MG (etc) 1300. |
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Richard Howe
Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1684
Location: Streatham, South London
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:58 am Post subject: |
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That should be enough for him to work from, thanks all!
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giz
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 377
Location: Bromsgrove
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:46 am Post subject: |
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but none of this really helps!
he is saying that he has bought new items for his engine but they don't fit. i can't think of many items that aren't interchangeable. it would be helpful if we knew what these items are. |
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Richard Howe
Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1684
Location: Streatham, South London
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:43 am Post subject: |
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At this point I've sent in the major information supplied above, and directed him to his local Mini club for further assistance; as evidenced here, clubs are a great source of information & someone's bound to know more 
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J Dawson
Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 470
Location: Lancashire/Greater Manchester
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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I can't understand why the spec has been downgraded - dynamo, 850 dizzy and starter motor etc. 
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Austin - you can DEPEND on it!
1976 Allegro 1100 4-dr saloon
Squeak, rattle & roll |
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giz
Site Admin
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
Posts: 377
Location: Bromsgrove
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:16 am Post subject: |
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i suspect that a) he wants to make it look more original and doesn't understand the reduction in performance and b) he doesn't know what he's doing
richard - give him the link to TMF www.theminiforum.co.uk/forums
he'll get all the help, advice and information he needs from there. |
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Richard Howe
Joined: 23 Mar 2010
Posts: 1684
Location: Streatham, South London
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Wow! Thank you VERY much! This will go a long way to help determine if this or isn't an Allegro motor. In answer to one of the postings, it does have a 1973 dated starter, which is the only bit of dated electrics not replaced by the original 1960 850 parts. I was thinking that that was done because the 850 starter wouldn't work on this 1275 motor. I feel pretty strongly that the motor is from around 1973-1975, which would make it early Allegro. if it is Allegro.
The main part I have received that is continually wrong (when ordering 1275GT Mini bits, so maybe it should be Allegro then) is the steady rod that runs parallel to the shift rod (from the gearbox to that box that the gear shift lever plugs into). Mini ones seem to be 20 5/8" in length, but mine is 21 5/8". Still, you mentioned that the Allegro motor was moved BACK in the chassis to give room for the front mounted radiator, so, I would think that the Allegro steady rod would be shorter if anything. Hmm. I will do some more checking over my mystery motor with the information you've sent. Thank you very much again!
- Paul Barnes
Bensalem, Pennylvania, USA. |
He's a happy bunny, thanks all
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