Allegro Club International

[Chris Williamson]

Due to my tightness at buying 6 months tax instead of 12 KiM the VP has gone into hibernation for the duration. Up until the tax ran out I had no problem starting it after anything up to 3 weeks out of use.

However when I came to start it a week ago the battery was all but dead. I charged it and the car started as normal. Obviously being on a SORN it's journey was quite short and when I had need to move it last night the same problem occured. This time I swapped the battery for one I had charged last week and was able to get the car out the garage to bring in another needing a look at. This morning went to start it and once again the formerly fully charged battery was dead!
In the past a similar problem was a permanently on bootlight, that was cured by removing the bulb but even in that case it took several days to drain the power, the interior light doesnt work and the keys were out so there is no obvious reason. I have now had to undo the negative battery connection to try and keep some power available so if anyone has encountered a similar problem,and cure, I'd be keen to hear.

[Richard Howe]

I have a similar drain in Gonzo, but have never isolated it. The best fix for any car that's undergoing periods of disuse is to disconnect the battery anyway.

Does your charger do battery conditioning?
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...that's why Allegro will look as good 5 years from now as it does today.

[M. Irvine]

Ideally, connect an ammeter, preferably one with an adjustable scale, between the disconnected earth cable and the battery negative terminal. Set on a high range first, if available. Many multimeters have a limited range and will possibly blow a fuse if overloaded. I am lucky to have an old, but working AVO 40, which is ideal. Alternatively connect a bulb between these two points, or even a voltmeter. If the bulb glows or the voltmeter reads a few volts there is a drain. If current flow is indicated pull out each fuse in turn to see if the drain disappears. Then check what is fed off the relevant fuse. Disconnect the alternator plug as diode failure can also cause a drain.

It shouldn't be too difficult to find, unlike many of today's cars where electronic control units can take up to half an hour to shut down or 'hibernate', and/or disconecting the battery can cause all sorts of issues, e.g. some cars will become immobilised and/or certain electrical functions will need to be reprogrammed!

On all older cars it is a good idea to disconnect the battery when the car is not being used but care must be taken not to loosen the post of the battery. Alternatively, a cut-out switch can be fitted to the battery BUT these do increase the voltage drop, which can affect cranking speed etc.

Merv.
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ALLEGRO = Agile, Lively, Legendary, Economical, Genial, Reliable & Outstanding.

[Laurence]

It could be that the battery is knackered, cheapo batteries only last 3 or 4 years if you're lucky.

But lack of use also knackers the battery, the plates inside the battery can become sulphated which effectively stops the battery charging & performing correctly.

Maybe because you store the car for 6 months etc., if you removed the battery & used a 'smart charger' to maintain the batterys' health by 'conditioning' the battery after is has charged it. The smart charger can 'rescue' a deeply discharged battery.

A CTEK MXS7.0 @ £100 is the all singing/dancing smart charger but a Ring RSC4 @ £50 is good if your battery is less than 50Ah.

You can leave the battery on charge for 6months & it will be monitored by a smart charger.

A battery should be stored 'fully charged' to avoid sulphation, so you could fully charge the battery at the begining of the storage season which would give it a better chance at the end of the storage season

[Chris Williamson]

Thanks for all the advice, I dont have an ammeter but I know someone who does so I might give him a call in a day or two. As regards the SORNing of the car it hasn't actually been off the road that long. The tax ran out at the end of November and up until then it was in use 2 or 3 days a week without any non start issue, it is only since then it has had 2 - 3 weeks periods of no use. The batteries themselves are just over 2 years old,both Halfords own brand, one I got in Sep09 when I got KiM the VP and the second in Oct09 as a free replacement for the one on Brian the VP which kept going dead, Suppose the problem could be the batteries but would 2 both fail at the same time?
Oddly tonight I went to move it again only for it to churn over a couple of times and die. I connected it to a gizmo I got from Aldi about a year ago, (about 6" long 2" high, does 6V/12V cost about 12.99, just says Ultimate Speed on it) anyway put it on charage for a couple of minutes, then turned the key out of curiosity and the car fired 1st time as if nothing was wrong!

[Graham]

I suspect one cell has died dropping the voltage. Charging the battery brings the voltage up enough for a decent spark and it fires straight away. It wouldn't surprise me, the number of Halford batteries I've bought over the years which seem to know the day the 2 year guarantee is up!!
I just give mine an hour or 2 on charge before I need to use it. Been doing that for a while now!
Tight? Me??

[giz]

i've also had many problems with halfords batteries, until i found out that my friend can get bosch ones trade price

[Richard Howe]

I got a Ring RSC12 from Halfords last week for the bargain sale price of £64 (was £92) - I know that Allegros only need 4V but the Lexus has a mahoosive battery so I figured it made sense to get the one charger for the fleet. It does the full range of slow & fast charging, multiple voltages, battery conditioning, float charging... Thus far at least, it seems like I've bought a winner!

So far it's done a cracking job of recharging Tara's flat battery (that dash clock usage adds up when you forget to disconnect the battery for 2 months... ), next I'll try it on Gonzo's as he always has issues with his batteries! A good conditioning cycle should at least keep it viable for a while longer... It's not even 12 months old yet.

Oh, and as if by magic, a car site I follow on Facebook has announced a competition to win a charger! Go here to enter:
http://www.newcarnet.co.uk/competition_form.html

(I am not affiliated to or benefiting from this link in any way)
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...that's why Allegro will look as good 5 years from now as it does today.

[Chris Williamson]

The battery mystery deepens Last night, after I had moved the car out of the garage I disconnected the negative connection. This morning, as I expected it churned a couple of times and that was it so I removed the battery and trotted down to Halfords. Obviously before giving out a new battery they are going to check the old one and though it had 43% power it was showing 12.11volts, apparently within working limits.
Back home I put it on my old charger, the needle showed it to be about half full but within a few minutes it indicated full power. I have yet to reinstall it in the car but this procedure is no different to what I have done before so if it is supposidly full and in working order,there is no drain via the car due to disconnection then what's going on?
(By the way Richard, thanks for the tip about the battery comp, I have entered it )

[M. Irvine]

One or two points to help you Chris.

Some organisations have no idea how to correctly check the condition of a battery. Relating off-load terminal voltage to condition or state of charge is usually meaningless. Whatever is indicated on your charger is misleading also, as a charger would not take a battery from 43% charged to 'full power' in a few minutes.

I don't know what test equipment was used, or how they can say that a battery at 12.11 volts has 43% power and is in working limits. 'Experts' have been known to connect a high rate discharge tester (a heavy load) across a discharged battery and then say the battery is no good. (If it was before, it probably won't be afterwards!)

This is an extremely complicated subject, especially now with so many different types of batteries in use on cars.

I suspect, like others have said, that the battery is faulty. I suggest that you fully charge the battery and then monitor its performance.

Alternatively, if you return the battery in a discharged state you will probably get a replacement. Don't expect these batteries to give good performance, or last well. They do not have a good reputation in the motor trade!
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ALLEGRO = Agile, Lively, Legendary, Economical, Genial, Reliable & Outstanding.

[Richard Howe]

It's not just voltage that determines how good or bad a battery is; sounds like your Halfords is nowhere near as good as my local one
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...that's why Allegro will look as good 5 years from now as it does today.

[Paul-V]

Coincidentally, I was at the parts counter in my local Halfords this afternoon (glow plugs for the Rover 25!) and they had left their 'battery warranty claim procedure' on the counter, no doubt from a previous customer's visit.

Using my upside-down reading skills (but still standing upright, you understand) I was able to learn that their batteries are manufactured by Varta Bosch and have a failure rate of better than 1 in 10000.

Staff are supposed to use a Bosch diagnostic tool to test returned batteries and this will indicate the condition of the battery and the type of fault it has.

The only valid reason for a warranty exchange will be where a battery has shorted one or more cells internally.

If it has become internally sulphated, it is deemed to have been 'misused', for example where it has remained unused for a long period of time in a part or fully discharged state.

We have a couple of Halfords batteries on the family Allegro fleet at the moment, so it will be interesting to see how long they last. At £32 each for the heavy duty '015' variety using my Halfords trade discount card, it was worth a punt at the time.......

Incidentally, I have seen a number of 7-8 year old MG Rover vehicles with their original batteries (supplied by Yuasa) still in working order!

[Laurence]

From what has been said it appears your battery is a bit knackered so add it to your collection & weigh them in.

Look for one of those 'maintenance free' battery's. They are a bit more expensive but are a bit more durable.

The maintenance free don't need topping up & if kept charged-up will last years & years.

[Colin T]

[Richard Howe]

Even one month could be long enough to do that; my old Citroen diesel flattened its battery in 6 weeks of idleness & that was a much greater capacity unit than found in an Allegro.
_________________
...that's why Allegro will look as good 5 years from now as it does today.